2. Do you agree that the body we receive when we are
resurrected is consistent with the type kingdom we
will go to (i.e. Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial)?
3. If we are going to be resurrected with a body from
that kingdom, how would God know which type of body to
give us in that resurrection if we have not already been
4. If you have already been resurrected with a
Terrestrial body, what would be the point of a final
judgment to see if you are worthy to go to the
Celestial Kingdom or not when you already have a
Terrestrial eternal immortal body?
See the point?
I know that 99% of all plan of salvation charts
published BY THE CHURCH MEMBERS show the Resurrection
first (I HAVE NO IDEA WHY) Even the new missionary
lesson book had it that way until I pointed this out
to them, then they changed it (or rather took that
After many years of searching, I finally found a chart PUBLISHED
BY THE CHURCH which shows it the correct way.
You can see the Ensign article on the Internet at
If you do not have that Ensign (Sept 2001) I place a picture of the chart below
from the article so you could see it. The church web page
does not print the graphics (I have no idea why)
The article is:
Teaching Our Children the Plan of Salvation
By Robert England Lee
Parents can present Heavenly Father’s “great plan of
happiness” in simple yet powerful ways.
Robert England Lee, “Teaching Our Children the Plan of
Salvation,” Ensign, Sept. 2001, 32-37
I would very much welcome your thoughts on the matter
and why you feel that the resurrection is before the
REBUTTALS BY OTHERS:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We have already been through several "Final Judgments". When Satan presented his plan
in the Pre-Earth life we were judged and 1/3 of the spirits lost the privilege of mortality for eternity. For them that was a pretty
When we die, we either go to the spirit prison or the spirit paradise. That is a judgment determined by worthiness (and we won’t get into
the subject here of only those baptized by priesthood authority being allowed into paradise... that is why we do baptisms for the dead... you would be surprised how often people challenge me on that too)... Then when we leave that spirit world we are judged/resurrected in a final resurrection and assigned to a kingdom...
(On my Epistles web page in the chart section, I have a chart created by Beth Cordy
showing all of those judgments).
OK.. another little twist to give you spiritual nightmares tonight just thinking about this......... (just kidding)
If that is the case that we get a final resurrected body....... then how could Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, President Faust, and several others promise us that if we are married in the temple and keep the commandments, then we will be able to eventually save our way ward children in the celestial kingdom in the next life? Are they going to be RE-RESURRECTED?
I hope you will not bring that up in Sunday school class...
So my point that I am trying to help you understand here (and it is of course just my opinion) is that the teachings of the church are filled with things that are either speculation, policies, or doctrines. Doctrines don't change. God has a body of flesh and bones. We know that is a doctrine. However it is often difficult to tell which is which (the whole focus of my life study of the church). Speculations are things like African Americans not holding the priesthood which Joseph Fielding Smith openly taught as a doctrine. But we found out it was not a doctrine but rather just his opinion (speculation) and in fact was just a policy that President Kimball changed. Another example is where Joseph Smith that it is the order of Heaven that 70's are not to be high priests . When some of the fist presidents of 70 (i.e. Zebeede Coltrin) were also ordained High Priests by Brigham Young, Joseph Smith released them and ordained other 70's in their place. That being in the Scriptures, people thought that was a doctrine. And that was the case clear up until the time of David O. McKay. Then as the church grew and the 7 presidents of the 70 (like S. Dillworth Young) who were general authorities but only 70's not High Priests like the Assistant Apostles, had a problem. When they went out to stake conferences, THEY COULD NOT SET APART A NEW STAKE PRESIDENT IF HE WAS NOT ALREADY A HIGH PRIEST BECAUSE HE HAD TO BE ORDAINED A HIGH PRIEST AND A SEVENTY CANT ORDAIN A HIGH PRIEST.... The church got so big they needed the Presidents of the 70's quorum to be able to do ordain High Priests when they were already in Africa or England. So President McKay changed that policy that Joseph Smith called "THE ORDER OF HEAVEN" (see Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 111 and D&C 107:93) and he ordained all the general authorities who were 70s to also be High Priests. Now do you want one more twist from those of us who use to be 70 as members of the church. When they changed from having Regional Representatives (who were all High Priests) and we started having Area Authority Seventies who were also all High Priests, President Hinckley called them all in to the Assembly room of the Salt Lake Temple and told them that even thought they were all High Priests they still needed to be ordained 70's too so they would have that special witness. And that is what he did and they continue to do to this day. One day in a Stake Conference 4 p.m. leadership session years ago we had a general authority there and he volunteered to answer questions like they often do. So I asked him if a High Priest was called as a general authority today to serve in the Quorums of the Seventy and he had already been ordained a 70 as a normal member of the church when they used to do that, would he have to be re-ordained a 70 again? He said no. Once a 70 always a 70. I already knew that because when S. Dillworth Young ordained me a 70 I received that special witness like fire. That is why I knew what President Hinckley was talking about when he announced it ( and I assume so did every other 70 who was formerly ordained). And that witness is still bringing within my soul to this present day and one of my greatest treasures. But there are still some 70's in the church today who are not general authorities. They are the ones who were ordained 70's before the change and have never been ordained High Priests. We have 2 in our ward. AND THEY STILL CANNOT ORDAIN A HIGH PRIEST. Is that a doctrine?
YIKES... I did not intend to get off on another EPISTLE... I guess that is why my children named my web page www.cordellvail.com/epistles. I have a tendency to go on and on when someone gets me started Studying the gospel and its doctrines is the joy of my life and my main hobby. Others go fishing or hunting. Oh I go fishing and hunting too... but not for fish or deer... for conference quotes that tell if the resurrection came before the final judgment or not.... OR I spend time creating a web page like www.cordellvail.com/missionary that appears to have had 1000's of readers and pleases me to no end to know that each one of us, even common members of the church like me can actually literally fulfill Ammon's promise in Alma 22:26 where he promises us that we can convert 1000's. How could over 50,000 people have read my testimony without the Internet? As you can guess I get a lot of letters telling me how much my web pages have helped convert them. How blessed we are. What a marvelous day we live in.
I will quit now. I hope I have not offended you with my answer to your question by trying to help you see the bigger picture of the doctrine of resurrection and judgment.
Sorry to be so long winded but I love to discuss gospel topics with friends who don't like to argue.
Your influence as a Sunday school teacher will be felt for generations to come. You never know how much influence you have on some people. But it is there and it carries of from them to others.
Blessings upon you.
Minter Creek Ward
Gig Harbor WA Stake
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